Embracing Career Pivots, Navigating Change, and Building a Motivated Remote Team

all right hello everybody hope you all

had a good lunch nice and full I know

that I am uh my name is Ryan I am the

head of design at Priceline and like

John said today we're going to talk

about and talk a little bit about my

career navigating change career pivots

and uh you know lessons learn learned

along the way so starting off here with

Price Line a little bit about price line

for those of you who aren't familiar

price line is an online travel agency we

sell hotels flights rental cars packages

cruises experience price line is part of

booking holding so our sister brands are

booking.com a go to rentalcars.com Open

Table and

kayak our mission at Price Line is to be

the best travel de dealmakers in the

world our goal is to make travel

affordable and accessible for

anyone we have a lot of scale at Price

Line our products touch roughly 1

million people every day that's between

app web email uh social cares and

various other channels so really we have

a lot of

reach we do a lot of testing at Price

Line High Velocity testing so on average

there's 100 tests running anytime you

visit price line so if you were to open

up the price Line app or look on the

desktop site and you're sitting next to

someone else you'll probably see

slightly different variations of the

same thing that's not what I'm here to

talk about today though I do love

talking about design optim optimization

and conversion so if you want to chat

about that please uh you know connect

with me after and I promise this SI not

up for no reason we will come back to

this at the end but before we move on I

have one question for everyone this is a

really important question when you know

the answer I just want you to shout it

out for many of you I'm sure this is the

reason why you're uxdx this week to get

the answer to this

question would you rather be able to

speak to speak any language or speak to

animals shout it out when you

know here a lot of an why why animals if

you don't mind because

that's love it perfect great answer this

will make sense a little bit later on or

at least at least I hope it

does so I'm going to start off just by

talking a little bit about me started

off as a developer I went to graduate

school at NYU I've spent a lot of time

in agencies I spent time at Brands and I

also pivoted careers at some point along

the way and opened up a gym we're going

to get into that a little bit more first

I want to just start start talking about

our own careers right like what we're

doing every single day it's like a

roller coaster right our care careers

really are there's UPS Downs twists and

turns and highs and lows and sometimes

things move really fast and other times

it's just it's like really slow right

and I'm a little bit out of my comfort

zone today because I usually do talk

about design conversion and and you know

building really cool products and today

I'm going to talk about me that's why

I'm here and well you know put slides

together so we're going to go through

we're going to do

this so I'm to start off with a great

quote I love this this is by Steve Jobs

and what it says is you cannot connect

the dots looking forward you can only

connect them looking backward so you

have to trust that the dots will somehow

connect in your future now to me this

has a lot of meaning for a few reasons

right we think we have a plan we think

we know where we're headed but that is

bound to change it's an inevitable right

we can Bank on that happening and two I

really feel like whatever we are going

through today whatever we're learning

whatever we're experiencing will at some

point down the road make a lot of

sense so for me everything was going to

plan this is earlier on in my career my

dots were connecting as I mentioned I

start off started off as a developer

what I didn't mention is I was a really

bad developer and realized that uh you

know pretty quickly the hard way but I

was passionate about how things were put

together and why and doing the right

thing for the customer and the business

that led me to New York New University

where I got a master's degree in design

and programming and and user experience

research I got a little bit lucky there

my thesis advisor was the founder of a

company called RGA which is a big

digital agency so got a little bit of

help getting my first job after graduate

school I spent about 5 years at RGA and

felt like okay I get agency I know what

agency is like I want to chy my at Brand

I got hired at Yahoo which was a great

company with great people it was also

for me a very good early lesson in

dealing with the

unexpected at Yahoo there are layoffs

pretty much every year you just kind of

knew it was coming and you had to learn

how to roll with it and throughout your

career you learn a lot from good

managers and bad managers it kind of

shapes you know who you want to become I

had a great manager at Yahoo at the end

of my first year my manager got laid off

I got called into an office I'm going to

say asked but I wasn't really asked I

was put in charge of the team that he

was previously running these are people

who are my peers and my friends and in

that moment I was suddenly their manager

so it was a great lesson again in

dealing with the unexpected and I didn't

realize it at the time but looking back

it's also for me a great lesson in

managing teams and building teams very

early

on so finally my T my time came November

of

2010 I got laid off at Yahoo um and I

had no idea that getting laid off at

this moment was going to be the

beginning of a really wild

ride so I going to talk a little bit

about my career detour now when I got

laid off at Yahoo I got a year of

severance which was pretty amazing right

as it happened at that time I had the

opportunity to help start a Fitness

business the concept was a gym that was

going to focus on personal training and

small group training and Crossfit I was

always passionate about Fitness I always

wanted to start a business and I figured

okay like you know I'm getting paid for

another year so I don't really have to

worry about making money from a business

why not my instinct was telling me this

is the right thing to do right I trusted

my instinct I also thought that because

of my background in design if this

didn't work out I could just get back

into design it was going to be easy

right what I didn't realize is it's

really hard to be an entrepreneur right

that was a lesson for me way harder to

be an entrepreneur than I thought it

took around three and a half years until

the business got to a point where it's

you know fairly stable maybe doing okay

and there's you know people there to

help manage it and run the dayto day but

at the end of the day the business

wasn't doing as well as I needed the gym

wasn't really working out that's a dad

joke right it wasn't working certainly

to the level of being able to support a

family now in there's different ways to

measure success right one is financially

and yes it was struggling financially

but then there's reward in terms of

reward it was pretty amazing being some

part of somebody's fitness journey

seeing somebody's life improve for the

better that's a really meaningful and

amazing thing now for those of you in

the room who are managers and who are

leaders you have an opportunity to help

grow people on your team you have the

opport Unity to help change somebody's

career career trajectories for the

better that also is a very meaningful

and a rewarding thing and I bring it up

because I think sometimes it's very easy

to lose sight of

that so I talk a little bit about my

rebound here I said okay if the gym

doesn't work out I can get back into

design no problem i' spent five years at

one of the largest digital agencies in

the world I spent time at yahu it's like

won't be a problem what I didn't do is

stay current with what was happening in

the industry see when I worked at RGA we

were still designing for the desktop

aging myself a bit here but we were

designning for a desktop and completely

separate experiences for mobile when I

worked at yahooo I was working on an

internal application which is only for

the desktop when somebody did eventually

want to talk to me and by the way I got

a lot of like you're a gym guy why would

we talk to you it doesn't make any sense

finally get a call they asked me about

responsive design I was completely lost

right so a piece of advice here if you

do pivot careers and you want to try

something completely different don't

lose touch with what you previously did

in the past I eventually got lucky um

somebody who was a former colleague of

mine at RGA was running creative at

another large agency he brought me in

there to do some freelance work then it

became easier and easier to get more

freelance work finally I landed a

full-time job at a digital agency called

Kora I took a few steps back from where

I left off which is is a little bit of a

blow to the ego but I was also confident

that I would be able to work my back

work my way back up and get back to

where I think I should

be so 5 years running uh creative and

and strategy at quora I wanted it's like

again like enough of agency I want to

get back into brand and product I took a

role at a company called Pearson which

is another great company I stayed there

4 months I realized very early on that

it wasn't the right place for me it

wasn't the right place for me to grow my

career in the way I wanted to and I

really think that our careers are too

valuable to spend time doing something

which we don't really love and which we

don't think is the right thing now that

being said there were two main things

which I was tasked with doing when I

came to Pearson one was helping my

company start their first design system

number two was rebuilding a team right

they had a team there was a lot of

turnover they needed somebody to come in

and could really help rebuild it

opportunity of Price Line came along and

the two things that were the Hot Topics

during the interview at Price Line were

Design Systems and building a team it

was incredibly relevant although I only

stayed at Pearson for 4 months if I

would have never made that brief stop I

would have never got the role I have

today at Price

line so we think we have a plan and

plans change and here are some important

things that I've learned along the way

one Embrace change like I've already

mentioned it's going to happen there's

nothing you can do to stop it be

open-minded don't be afraid to to to try

new things trust your instinct and take

risk I went into the gym knowing that it

might not work out but my instinct was

telling me it was the right thing to do

and it was the right time to do

it

oops know that it's okay to fail it's

okay to hit the wrong button when you're

presenting but that comes up a lot right

you hear people say it's okay to fail

and genuinely that is really really true

the thing is how you respond to failure

and what you learn from it right but

this is okay Embrace Embrace failure and

take it as a learning moment and the

last thing to me is the most important

what you experience today is going to

help you tomorrow all those things at

the end of the week that make you think

oh man this is a horrible week or this

week was great those are like bookmarks

and they're going to come back and help

you in the future one thing I really

like to say is the present is really the

best lesson plan for the

future trust the process and good things

for ha will happen for me what I learned

down the road is my time at the gym was

like going for my MBA I learned a lot

about business and because of that I

became better as a designer I become

became better as a leader I became

better at selling design work I also

learned that the gym wasn't about the

equipment it was about building a

community designers Developers project

managers it doesn't matter who you are

everyone loves to be part of a community

because of that experience I became

really good at building

communities although the gym wasn't

ultimately as successful as I would have

hoped it was going to been as I would

hoped it was going to be I learned a lot

during that time that made me happier

and more successful today than I was

before all right so getting on with the

story here September 2019 it's my first

day at Price Line I'm feeling good I'm

energized I'm motivated like nothing is

going to get in my way right I'm finally

where I where I need to be right nothing

is going to stop

me five months

later this thing called Co sure everyone

here is familiar um Co comes along and

I'm working in an industry new in an

industry which was pretty much coming to

a halt and I was taking over a team

which I thought it was going to need to

be really Hands-On with and now all of a

sudden we're remote

the headlines not pretty right there is

nothing good in the headlines that

you're reading in the news and this

brings me to another quote I've lived

through some terrible things in my life

some of which actually happen that's

Mark Twain what I really like about this

and I think there's a simple truth here

we spend way too much worrying way too

much time worrying about things that

haven't yet

occurred now there's something called

fud right it's feir uncertainty in doubt

I've come across this everywhere I've

ever been I'm sure you all have right I

want to talk a little bit about what

that means and and how to get through it

let's look at an example here from Price

Line right so Co happens travel pretty

much comes to a halt which leads to the

question when will people begin to

travel again right now like I said

there's fear uncertainty doubt and then

there's always

reality fear is like what is going to

happen to us right we're dealing with a

lot of unknown here there's the

uncertainty of what is going to happen

to the business and doubt it's like well

it's going to be a long time before

people travel again like what's going to

happen to us are we going to still have

our jobs in six

months and the reality here is we

learned how to be

successful and I want to talk a little

bit about

how now there are things that matter

there are things we can influence there

are things we can control and there are

things we just can't

control right if something is important

to you that means that it

matters you if you are able to help

indirectly shape the outcome of a

situation then you could have

influence and then there's things you

you can control right this is in your

ability right for example you can

control your thoughts you can control

your actions and I know it's easy to

stand up here and say but if you can't

control something try not to spend too

much time worrying about

it so people couldn't travel again one

thing that matters is we were we we

still have our mission right our mission

is still to be the best travel deal

makers in the

world we were able to have an influence

on making sure our customers trust us

right that still very much mattered we

were able to control what we did so we

were no longer testing at a high

velocity because people were going on

leisure travel or business travel or

personal travel we had to completely

change our testing strategy and the way

we operated what became important at the

moment was delivering messages about

safety about cancellation policies about

cleanliness we knew that those were

things that mattered in the Moment by

focusing on those things we were able to

we were able to be successful and the

important thing here to keep in mind

right is you can always control an

outcome right you can't always control

an outcome but you can always have an

influence by recognizing What

mattered right uh we found what we can

have where we can have an influence we

knew what we can control and ultimately

we did learn how to be successful now I

think there's three important things

that happened during this time one the

leadership and the management stayed

calm right when it's uncertain and you

don't know what's going to happen stay

calm if you panic your team panics

everyone around you panics be resilient

you can't get dog IC about process you

need to know when it's time to make a

change one thing that was really

interesting to happen during Co is a lot

of our call centers were pretty much

knocked out and we had a lot of

customers who needed support like I said

before it was really important that our

customers trusted us that they know

we're there for them we had developers

we had product managers right designers

all hands on deck I was making calls to

hotels and to Airlines on behalf of

customers to help people get a refund

for trips that that weren't going to be

happening right not what I signed up for

not what a lot of people signed up for

but we were resilient we found ways to

work together to make us successful and

finally focus on Solutions not problems

it's very easy to talk about problems

and complain about problems and quite

often there's a solution that's right in

front of you always think Solutions over

problems now everyone here is probably

familiar with cognitive biases as

designers as marketers as product people

we use these all the time to help people

make a purchase decision but did you

know there's also cognitive biases that

really impact how we react to certain

situations I want to talk about a few of

them the first is the ambiguity effect

right this is really talking about

decision- making is affected by a lack

of information and there has been

research done and what it says are if

you're at work and you're presented with

two options right one is is a project

which has a ton of detail and very

little reward or it's not well defined

and has a ton of reward a lot of upside

most people most people are going to

pick the first most people are going to

go at the project that has a lot of

definition even though there's not a lot

of

reward another cognitive bias is the

status quo right this is our natural

preference for the current state of

affairs a great example for this is

Coca-Cola in the 1980s Coca-Cola decided

that they needed a new version of coke

they needed to kind of change their

taste they came with a new formula they

did a lot of blind taste hesting the

feedback they were getting is it's

sweeter it's better people loved it

right Nob brainer we need to update the

coke they put a new Coke on the shelves

that had new on it classic Coke outsold

New Coke by three times as many sales

right this is because the status quo

bias people didn't want to get the new

Coke because they wanted to stick with

what they're familiar

with lastly here here we have the

negativity effect right all things being

equal we always gravitate towards

negative feelings ever positive it's why

people remember a bad first impression

more than a really good first impression

I always like to say this is why the bad

news network it hasn't taken off right

like our brains are like Teflon for bad

news now the thing about this which is

really important for everyone to

understand is our brains are wired to

protect us from harm if you're switching

jobs if you're moving if you're faced

with with uncertainty right your brain

is going to try to stop you it's part of

human nature I bring this up because I

want everyone to know it's okay and I

think this is something people often

struggle with right the good news is we

can change this right it's something we

can all get better at talk a little bit

about how there's two types of mindset

that are really important there's a

fixed mindset somebody with a fixed

mindset avoids challenges they give up

easily right they have this feeling that

their abilities are fixed growth mindset

is where you Embrace challenge you

welcome failure right you know it's an

opportunity to learn and do better and

you also think that your abilities can

be developed right you can always

improve you can always get better

somebody with a fixed mindset might say

I have no control over this right where

somebody with a growth mindset might say

my effort determines My Success if we

could all learn to have a growth mindset

we get naturally much better at getting

through those those moments of the

unknown and through those ambiguous

periods where we're just not quite sure

what to

do so what's really important here and

one thing that really helps is to build

what is called a growth mindset culture

right this is a culture that Embraces

challenge it welcomes failure and it

lets people know that your abilities can

always be developed right there's always

something you can learn and this brings

me to the last piece here really

important lesson I've learned along the

way is people in community right and how

do you build a positive community that

people really like to be a part of and

really like to develop and

work another great quote here right by

Lance Armstrong knowledge is power

Community is strength positive attitude

is everything always try to stay

positive the more you know the better

but it's really my belief that if you

have a strong Community everything we're

talking about naturally becomes much

easier to deal with with now here are

some things that I've learned that

really help build a strong Community One

People Are People they're not resources

like a resource is like a unit that does

a function people are your teammates

they're other human beings and this is

why I used to hear a lot of Human

Resources now I think we're hearing more

of people in culture people in

organizational development but think of

the people you work with as people don't

call them resources two your team needs

to trust like you can have the most

talented team in the world but if they

don't trust each other if they don't

trust your company Mission then their

craft is never going to really match up

to the talent that it that it really has

diversity is extremely important people

from different backgrounds bring

different perspectives and different

ideas and this is really where the good

ideas and this is where Innovation comes

from rely on senior members to bring

experience like when I was at the gym

people who have been there for a long

time and have seen results are really

the best salese they were the best

motivators for the newer people same as

I deal with today designers and and

researchers people who have more

experience have stories and those

stories are really important to share

and they help more junior members

mentorship is really important again for

building a very strong and powerful

Community make it fun right like yeah

we're work to work but that doesn't mean

we can't have a good time while we're

doing that I think there are

intentionally ways that we can can go

about making work more fun we will talk

about this in a little bit and lastly be

human right remember as people uh you

know not not resources start a meeting

by asking people how they're doing right

don't just jump into it another lesson

that I've learned here and jobs ago I

had a manager that was a bad manager

this was the type of person that you

just know you don't want to be but there

was one thing this person did that I

took a lot from right and it still stays

with me

ask people for good news we always start

a meeting by saying does anyone have any

good news people get around the room and

they talk about when they've had at work

things that have happened in their

personal life right but it's good news

it's a good way to get people engaged

and it's a really good way to be human

now there's a girl on my team and her

name is Jen and she keeps this database

of just really odd bizarre questions

right some come from her we actually

have like user submission now from

people on the team where they could

submit their own their own questions

after we do good news we always ask a

gen question as I like to call it the

first one everyone here is familiar with

I put examples of a few other questions

that we sometimes ask as example at the

beginning of meetings they're kind of

like little ice breakers but it's a good

way to get people bonding and connecting

and laughing right it's just a simple

way to make a meeting fun and get people

to know each other trust one

another next is break rules right I

don't think you can really build a

community if you don't break some

rules here's a lesson that I learned at

the gym right everyone was there because

they were into fitness right they wanted

to be in shape but what I realize is

those people love pizza they love Bagels

they love beer right and what I found is

that give them Pizza sometimes after a

workout they hang out and they bond

bring in Bagels sometimes in the morning

right it creates a space for them to to

get together and talk give them drinks

after a workout we used to have happy

hours after workouts which seems like

the most unfitness thing that you could

possibly do especially when there's

Pizza to go along with it but people

loved it right it got people talking and

what I started to realize is the more I

did this kind of thing the more people

became friends our retention actually

improved dramatically after we started

doing this because if somebody's friends

stayed they were going to stay right now

at Price Line we also try to break the

rules although in a different kind of

way so we play games right we have a

meeting once every other week in the

middle of the of the day where we don't

talk about work right we have a social

chairperson on the team and they're

responsible for finding a game we play a

game as a team for one hour usually some

type of online virtual interactive

game sometimes we'll pick a movie give

everyone like two weeks to watch a movie

we we'll have a meeting in the middle of

the day nothing about talking about that

movie coming up with our own movie

rating another thing that we like to do

uh is dress dress up in costumes with a

matching Zoom background that's you know

that's fun uh we've done it before on

Halloween we've done it at just random

times during the year but again it's

just a very simple intentional way to

get people to

connect so again coming back to this

point right at Price Line we do a lot of

testing testing learning and iterating

that's how you build a product right

it's also how you build a team and it's

how you build a community this type of

thinking should translate into

everything that we do right experiment

and iterate on your team on your process

on your Solutions don't get stuck into

one way of thinking and one only one way

of doing things right pay attention talk

to your team observe what they're doing

try new things Shake It Up see how see

how it

works right so as I said it's a roller

coaster that's my roller coaster story I

think we all have one I think they're

all meaningful I think they're all

incredibly valuable thinking about about

what our roller coaster stories are

sharing them with other people because

it's a really good way to help others

along and let people know that we have

all been through very similar things

right it's a wild ride and we are all in

this together so thank you all very

[Applause]

much question for myself really is what

would be the single best piece of advice

that you could recommend a professional

trying to navigate career transition you

could I'm sorry I said sorry if you look

what piece of advice would you recommend

to professionals trying to navigate a

career transition yeah I mean I I really

believe if there's something you want to

do and you're passionate about doing it

you should give it a try I think our

lives and our careers are too short not

to do something that's why I jumped in

to the gym right I knew it was a risk

right but I also knew my instinct was

telling me it's the right thing to do

and it's the right time to do it yeah so

I think it's really important that you

don't follow just what you the rules of

what you think you're supposed to do

right take a risk take some chance and I

think at the end of the day everything

is going to connect right everything is

going to work out yeah it's really

interesting I know they say as well

sometimes that some people who who do

quite well they came from a background

where they had a shop or something

because they learned about accounts they

learned they knew everything and like

when you go into the area of having your

own business I think that really helps

because he gives you that overall view

of everything as well and it opens

completely new Vistas so it's good to go

down roads look that look like they're

not going anywhere but certainly I mean

the worst thing that could happen is you

look back one day and say oh man like I

didn't do this one thing when I had a

chance right and then there's nothing

you could do about it at that point

right the moment is gone okay we'll move

to question from the audience sure from

your experience remote hybrid or in

office what do you think is the best

space for design yeah well I mean I

honestly I I think it all works so we

have been remote now for the past few

years um starting actually it's kind of

already started but uh we are now going

back into the office two days a week I I

think that remote works I think that

Hybrid Works and I do think that there

are val there is value to being in

person the one thing that I will say

about being a remote right that I didn't

expect to happen and I mentioned at the

beginning it was one of my concerns

coming in to you know take over a team

that I thought was going to have to be

very Hands-On with I think being remote

forced everyone to connect and bond

right and learn to work with one

another from a distance and we you know

we were able to rely more on a

asynchronous communication I think

people became better at supporting one

another so I do think there is some very

real value to it yeah um but I think

that there's Al like being in person

like nothing could kind of beat the the

relationships that you build by spending

time with people together yeah I think

it's about be more free range than a

battery hen you know yeah okay so what

we'll do move on to the next question um

why is diversity important in your

opinion would you hire based on

diversity over

talent I mean like as I said I think

diversity is important because people

with different you know people with

different backgrounds bring different

perspectives and they have it's

different ideas and I think that becomes

a really powerful thing in terms of

hiring diversity over talent I mean I

think when we hire we make sure that

we're hiring a diverse slate like we

won't get when we have roles that are

open we won't even get candidates until

there until we have a certain number of

candidates to review I think at the end

of the day you have to pick who is for

the role but I don't think you should

always just rush into that and hire the

first person because they seem like

they're the right thing I'm not saying

to move slow you obviously want to move

fast right but pay attention to who

you're talking to when you interview I

think we have a lot of opportunity to

kind of open that up a little bit and

talk to a more broad uh you know slate

of candidates okay um how do you Embrace

change in scenarios where your instinct

is screaming at you to stop well it's

never easy right but be aware of the

cognitive biases right be self-aware

right know that a lot of the times the

reason why uh you know like your

instinct is screaming at you is because

your brain is telling you to stop like

I'm uncomfortable this isn't the right

thing to do right and it's really

important to be able to step out of your

comfort zone and consider other ways of

doing things even if it's uncomfortable

right you need to give it a try because

if you keep on doing the safe thing

right or the thing that you're that you

think you're supposed to do there's a

good chance that you're not doing the

right thing right so don't be afraid to

take some risk and try something new

even if it's not what you're comfortable

with okay and let's see you tried

something new like with the next

question was it difficult to get get

back to work after taking a year

eight um

no no cuz I didn't I it was like pretty

much I got laid off at Yahoo and within

like two weeks was like you know

starting a business and it's a lot of I

mean for the gym it was a lot of work

you know there's designing the space

there was a lot that went into it took

you know it took a good nine months

before anything actually opened up with

no members so it wasn't really a break

though I would love to have a year off

work so if anyone has any ideas on how

to make that happen yeah yeah yeah drop

them in okay uh with testing is there a

theoretical inflection point where too

much testing could be a partial

negative um yeah I think I think I mean

that's just part of the debate with

testing that's why you have to be

careful what you test and and how you're

testing it I don't know if to I don't

know NE neily the too much testing is

going to be a bad thing because I think

the more you test the more you learn

right that often leads to something good

again I think it's a really good way to

build a product but I think you have to

listen to the data and listen to your

users and make sure that you're testing

the right things at the right time not

testing something just for the sake of

testing right it's not about the share

volume it's about the meaningfulness of

what you're doing okay and and how do

you create good company culture is that

like the community you were talking

about earlier on yeah I mean it's it's

so I think you know to me there's

company culture and team culture are are

two different things um I think team

culture is something we have Direct

Control of because it's our teams so I

think it's a lot of the things I've

talked about be human right try and make

it fun intentionally try to make it fun

it doesn't have to be about work all the

time but the more you can get people to

bond and connect the closer people on

your team become right they start to

trust each other they start to respect

each other when it's all about work all

the time and all you're doing is

reviewing work and talking about work it

doesn't give people to form a connection

and really get to know one another right

and I think it's our job as managers and

leaders especially on our team to make

sure that we're getting at least our

teams to trust one another and respect

one another okay why do you think or

sorry why do you know a career risk is

worth it as opposed to being a bad

decision um I I mean you don't I don't I

I honestly don't think I could I don't

think there's a good spend to put on

that I mean it it it very well could be

but but you're never going to know until

you try it and again like I said before

I would rather try something and fail

and have it be the wrong decision um

then not try it at all unless it's just

like something really stupid right but

in general I think that that's the way

to to think about it because again it's

like down the road you're going to look

back at things and say man I wish I

tried that one thing I had that one

opportunity to try something new and I

walked away from it and I didn't do it

and I really like Steve Jobs said dots

connect right like everything we're

going through today is going to line up

and make sense down the road okay all

our questions have moved so Ryan okay

really appreciated thanks for for for

coming on and talking to us about that

and please give your give a hand Round

of Applause for

Ryan

thanks